Pope says we're not really a church
VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The Vatican said on Tuesday Christian denominations outside Roman Catholicism were not full churches of Jesus Christ.
Protestant leaders said this was offensive and would hurt inter-denominational dialogue.
A 16-page document by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which Pope Benedict once headed, described Christian Orthodox churches as true churches, but suffering from a "wound" since they do not recognize the primacy of Pope.
But the document said the "wound is still more profound" in Protestant denominations.
"Despite the fact that this teaching has created no little distress ... it is nevertheless difficult to see how the title of 'Church' could possibly be attributed to them," it said....
Link: Vatican's Take on Other Churches
Annette, Wednesday, 7-11-07 5:15 PM
re: Pope says we're not really a church
That's a bummer. I was going to invite the Pope over for a beer & a burger. But not anymore. He's on his own.

Seriously though, I suppose if by "church" you mean something that recognizes the pope, then yeah, we're not a church. I don't want to be that kind of a church. I would hope that our identity as a church would have its founding somewhere else.
ROUS  Zach Brumbelow, Wednesday, 7-11-07 5:55 PM
re: Pope says we're not really a church
Eh, we're followers of Christ what more needs to be said? The term church was used by the Romans (to mean a gathering of people for the same general purpose) long before it started being used to mean what we use it for today (specifically a gathering of believers with a common faith). Just like the term Christian was a derogatory term initially as opposed to how it's used today. I guess I just don't understand why the Protestants get so upset, they left the Catholic Church for a reason why do they care what the leader of the Catholic Church says about them?
Amber, Wednesday, 7-11-07 6:29 PM
re: Pope says we're not really a church
Too bad about you and the Pope, Zach, because we already have a tennis game scheduled and then we're going to watch some "hot" flick on you-tube about global warming.

Amber, I don't know why we get our knickers in a twist either. But I do think it's interesting that a few hundred years ago people would be lopping off the heads of one another over this and now, well, seeing it in the paper makes us feel better. After all, I think we always did suspect that there was some difference of opinion between those of Catholic affiliation and those of Protestant affiliation.

If I were the Pope I think I would say something too. After all, if you were trying to run a church the way God had ordained you to and this pesky group kept saying that you were just like all the rest of them and there was nothing so special about what you said anyway, it would be require some sort of statement, wouldn't it?
ROUS  Katy Brumbelow, Thursday, 7-12-07 3:25 AM
re: Pope says we're not really a church
i agree, Katy. after all, mormons often call themselves christians and i want to to tell them no, they're not. i'd imagine the pope sees us similar to how we see mormons, and he has the power to broadcast it widely.

i see him making two statements:
1- "They're not one of us"
2- "Our way is the only way to be.

so when the pope makes an announcement and says #1, i have to agree him. i'm not and i'm fine with it! the part i disagree with is #2. so if that makes me not in the same camp as the pope... i'm ok with that.
ROUS  Christina Reagan, Thursday, 7-12-07 2:29 PM
re: Pope says we're not really a church
Glad to see I started a little discussion here. :)
At root, I agree with everything stated here. If the Pope didn't think that Catholicism was the cat's meow, and think everyone oughta be one, he wouldn't be much of a Pope, would he?
And in the same way David is quite content and even happy to know that the French are still out there being French and hating Americans, I can also be quite content and even happy that the Pope is still out there defending his faith against the assault of The Reformation.

So why Does it bother me? Why is it any different from an Imam saying "Christians are heretics!"

I think it's because I don't believe *they* are heretics.
I had a Catholic friend at FFI - she described herself as an "Evangelical Catholic." Naive as I was back then I was first disbelieving and then more than a little bothered when I found out that not only was she Catholic, but she meant to remain that way. She was committed to her denomination - and I had to acknowledge that she was a Christian "anyway."
Similarly she had to acknowledge that I was a Christian despite the fact that by her denomination's theology I was going straight to an unpleasantly warm spot for eternity since not only had I failed to be baptized Catholic, I hadn't been baptized (then) at all!
I think I had the much easier adjustment.

Because in my book, we don't disagree on the fundamentals of the faith. They, however, do not agree, because where we Do disagree is on what the fundamentals *are.*
I say they are "Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the father but by him," and "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved." They say what I just said, plus... the primacy of the pope, the veneration of the saints, the sacrament of baptism performed properly in a Catholic church, the sacrament of the Lord's Supper performed properly in a Catholic church, etc, etc.

So I am saddened that I can acknowledge them as brothers and sisters in Christ, but they cannot (officially at least) do me the same honor.
The Reformation was important. I am sad that there are still so many denied - or denying - its fundamental earth-shattering, bondage-releasing truths.

Annette, Thursday, 7-12-07 5:31 PM
re: Pope says we're not really a church
Pulled up a response from the Baptists---the author captures my sentiment very well.
Link: http://www.christianpost.com/article/20070713/2842
David C, Friday, 7-13-07 10:02 AM
re: Pope says we're not really a church
eh... let catholics be catholics. personally, i'm fine with them making rules that only apply to themselves.
ROUS  Christina Reagan, Friday, 7-13-07 10:50 AM
re: Pope says we're not really a church
I saw the Pope in the 70s, shortly after I got saved, on TV. People were out in the pouring rain, hanging on every word he was saying. What an opportunity to preach the gospel; but he didn't. Either he didn't know the truth, or he wasn't saved. I have never gotten over how grieved and angry I was at seeing that. I have also been to a meeting of Catholic believers who I bore witness were really saved. I have led a Catholic friend to the Lord, who never heard how to be saved in her church.
Barbara Hardgrove, Tuesday, 7-17-07 8:52 PM
Reply to This Discussion
Start New Discussion
  Church, Christian, Salvation, Beaverton, Tigard, Lake Oswego, Portland, Oregon, Friends, Quaker, Non-Denominational, Jesus Christ, God, New Testament, NT, Old Testament, OT, Bible, Heaven, Hell, Casual, Evangelical, Intimate, Community